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Solar Redemption in 3e

[#][F] John Mørke - 4 Hours ago
Originally posted by Ravraxas View Post

Which is all in line with the cycle of night and day, yes I'm aware. It doesn't take a genius to notice, after all it's written all over the Caste names of both Solars and Abyssals.

Nevertheless I think you misunderstand my objection (I would't really call it a complain and it certainly isn't directed at the concept of Redemption itself) to how you dismissed the concerns of all the people who posted in this thread by stating that the problem was that the Solar NPCs were badly written.

There is more to it than that.

People are concerned over how Redemption seems to imply that the Solar Exalted are inherently moral and I personally think that the point made about why anyone would want to become one when everything they know paints them as the worst monsters to ever exists has some merit and deserves more than that. There is also the questions about how Redemption undermines the larger theme of Exalted of "actions have consequences" by undoing one of the worst consequences that the Exalted Host and the order imposed by Heaven has suffered as a whole.

As far as I know none of this changes no matter how well written your Solars NPCs are.

Also, by the tone of your reply I realize I wasn't being clear in my previous post: I'm not a native English speaker, so when someone that actually is one tells me I don't know what a word means I check. I literally went and checked the word "theme" in a dictionary just to be sure it wasn't a false friend. I wasn't being facetious or anything like that.

First let me just say that, I am only offering you these remarks because I am trying to take your criticism to heart—but it's difficult if I don't understand your meaning. Now that you have made yourself very clear, let's start again, shall we?

There's nothing in a Solar's powers that makes everything they do turn out "Good" or moral. But the Abyssal curse guarantees everything they do will end in ash and sorrow. To an Abyssal suffering this curse, the motive/creative/holy power of Solar Exaltation represents not a guarantee of a state of moral good, but the chance to do moral good as he deems it, without bringing ruin and death to everyone and everything he loves as a guaranteed promise of his power. An Abyssal who wants to break the curse would rise to the lofty heights of sainthood in pursuing this goal, despite the awful price in suffering he must pay. It has everything to do with the Abyssal's idea of morality and how the Unconquered Sun recognizes a hero's virtue, and that Solars have the choice of good or evil. Redemption does not mean the Abyssal who has become a Solar will be free from temptation and unable to make mistakes or act immorally, although it is highly implied that they will stay a moral actor by virtue of what they have suffered.

And yes, this all requires the ST to deem actions moral, which some may reject outright. Those kinds of Storytellers won't run Redemption stories, and that's AOK, but other Storytellers doing so won't hurt their games.

[#][F] John Mørke - 1 Hour Ago
Originally posted by Murcushio View Post

At the risk of interjecting myself, I'd like to note that a lot of people seem to have a real problem with the Unconquered Sun being held up as an exemplar of virtue of morality and qualified to render judgments of that sort. I forget if it was in this thread or another, but there was a guy recently grousing about how in his games, the only message the UCS had for the Solars was "go away and do your jobs so I can keep doing crack."

They are welcome to that depiction, but the Unconquered Sun literally evaluates an Abyssal seeking Redemption, so I think it's safe to say that such an ST is employing an ST's prerogative.

Monday Meeting 02/23/15

[#][F] Holden - 7 Hours ago
Originally posted by Aquillion View Post
My recollection was that the Storytelling chapter had an extremely cautiously-worded "the game up until now has assumed that releasing the Yozis is impossible, and there's a lot of reasons for this; but it's also central to some Infernal stories, so decide for yourself if it is possible or not in your game."

Whereas the first few chapters were "RECLAMATION RECLAMATION RECLAMATION! RECLAMATION? RECLAMATION! YOZIS YOZIS RECLAMATION RECLAMATION. Oh and here are some new exalts you can play if you want to be on Team Yozi and participate in bringing about the Reclamation, I guess. RECLAMATION RECLAMATION!"

Yes, pretty much. Neall tried to bring some nuance and considered advice to the table with the ST chapter but by that point anyone who read the book straight through had already... well, read Chapter 1. First impressions are hard to shake.

Liminals = Prometheans?

[#][F] John Mørke - 1 Hour Ago
Liminals started out a very slight "wouldn't it be cool if?" thought about a Promethean Exalted and evolved decidedly into a unique thing with a common ancestor.

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